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| Base Saiyajins and Namek/Mecha Frieza.; Yes, this again... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 11 2016, 05:16 AM (1,579 Views) | |
| ekrolo2 | Feb 11 2016, 09:34 PM Post #16 |
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You do realize no one but Monaka, Beerus and Whis can beat Freeza before Goku turns SSJ right? That's why both Goku and Supreme Kai would tout it as some impressive feat. For decades Freeza was able to basically rule the universe using a minuscule amount of power and it took a rag tag team of humans and alien freaks with several bulls*** power increases to finally kill him. King Kai was also hyped up as some great martial arts master and he can't beat Nappa, Goku surpassed him then went on to fight greater enemies who FAR outclass King Kai. After that, I wouldn't be surprised if Goku just wrote off all the Kai's as all hype and nothing else. I'm not saying Supreme Kai is only stronger than First Form Freeza, he's probably not. I'd say he's actually comparable to the Base Saiyan's but the whole "I can one shot Freeza" is vague as all hell as far as power statements go. Plus Supreme Kai is kind of an idiot when it comes to power levels so I wouldn't put much value into whatever he says. Ultimately, my point is this: the only way Piccolo being inferior to Base Saiyan's can make sense is if A) Gohan already left him in the dust in the Cell Games to have Vegeta's later statement about Goku's SSJ2 strength make any sense or B) the SSJ multiplier shrank which is a whole other can of worms. Edited by ekrolo2, Feb 11 2016, 09:36 PM.
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| Saberoph | Feb 11 2016, 09:42 PM Post #17 |
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I'm not saying I support that notion, just with the exception of Post Zeta Sword Gohan and the Fusions. Honestly, I think your Kaioshin argument is a copout to get around placing him above Frieza. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| ekrolo2 | Feb 11 2016, 09:47 PM Post #18 |
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I actually do usually put him above Freeza & the Base Saiyan's whenever I do a list. My only problem with him is the Daizenshuu trying to put him dimensions above Piccolo. To me, dimensions apart would imply he's comparable to the SSJ Saiyan's and I don't see him that high. Nor do you need to be Perfect Cell tier to one shot Freeza even at his apex. |
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| Saberoph | Feb 11 2016, 09:54 PM Post #19 |
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I have Then Namek forfeiting out of respect. I don't take the Diaz as real fact, because it also says Gohan was ASSJ against Dabra, but he clearly wasn't. My problem with saying Kaioshin was talking about someone weaker, is because from Kakarrot's point of view he always thinks of the form that fought him, so he would be thinking about 100% Frieza, not his weaker forms...to say he's not really is taking him out of character. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| ekrolo2 | Feb 11 2016, 09:59 PM Post #20 |
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Goku and the others might think apex Freeza but its hard to know what Supreme Kai knows on the subject of peoples powers. He's aware that Gohan will make a tantalizing target for Yamu and Spopovich but then he makes flat out laughably poor judgments when it comes to their fights in Babidi's ship. Even a throwaway line about King Kai telling his superior about Freeza's true power would've done a lot to clear up just how much he knows about PLs. |
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 10:02 PM Post #21 |
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I have all the base saiyajins above Namek/Mecha Frieza ever since the Cell and only Gohan, Goku and Vegeta above Piccolo in their base after Cell arc. Obviously all saiyajins with Ssj are above #17 and 18, 16 and Piccolo in the Buu arc. |
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| Saberoph | Feb 11 2016, 10:20 PM Post #22 |
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I get that, but later on when they talk about Cell Kakarrot references the Cell he fought(Using simple logic you'll see that), so going by that we know Kakarrot does think about the last form he fought when thinking about these things, and if you look back at how he thinks he does that a lot. To be honest, saying he might be thinking about another when he usually doesn't is a little conjecture. I don't want you to get the wrong idea and think I want this to be all about what I believe, but I do think when all conjecture, excuses and copouts are taken away, that it's pretty clear and straight forward. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 10:47 PM Post #23 |
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Can Vegeta's confidence be used as evidence to suggest Saiyajins are above Kaioshin and Piccolo? I always find that shaky because the premise of that whole superiority is Vegeta thinks he could defeat Goku. |
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| + Clearin | Feb 11 2016, 11:19 PM Post #24 |
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Gohan also said he'd like to win the tournament, which was said right after he told Piccolo about it, so Piccolo entering would be fresh in his mind. |
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| Zoom | Feb 11 2016, 11:32 PM Post #25 |
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Yes to Gohan, but what about Vegeta? As we find he's still way behind Gohan and Goku, enough to warrant selling his soul to gain the difference in power. Edited by Zoom, Feb 11 2016, 11:33 PM.
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| Saberoph | Feb 11 2016, 11:46 PM Post #26 |
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You know what...when I made this Thread and until the last two posts, I had completely forgotten about the Budokai stuff. Yes SSJ4 Gotenks I am giving you a compliment...don't let it go to your head.
Edited by Saberoph, Feb 11 2016, 11:56 PM.
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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